Comments on: What Is Your Experience of Human Nature? http://magdalenemystique.com/2007/05/14/what-is-your-experience-of-human-nature/ The Path Inward Wed, 07 Jan 2009 10:28:29 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.4 by: Anneli Leander http://magdalenemystique.com/2007/05/14/what-is-your-experience-of-human-nature/#comment-572 Fri, 18 May 2007 02:05:26 +0000 http://magdalenemystique.com/2007/05/14/what-is-your-experience-of-human-nature/#comment-572 Dear Betty, I also want to say Thank you for having this blog! Thank you for putting out all these questions and thoughts, that create these wonderful inspirational discussions! I always look forward to reading the questions and comments. Whats up next time? Thank you for letting everyone join in - this is very generous of you all! You must have such fun at your meetings in the Magdalene community. Take care, Anneli Dear Betty, I also want to say Thank you for having this blog! Thank you for putting out all these questions and thoughts, that create these wonderful inspirational discussions! I always look forward to reading the questions and comments. Whats up next time? Thank you for letting everyone join in - this is very generous of you all! You must have such fun at your meetings in the Magdalene community.
Take care,
Anneli

]]> by: Anneli Leander http://magdalenemystique.com/2007/05/14/what-is-your-experience-of-human-nature/#comment-571 Fri, 18 May 2007 01:55:42 +0000 http://magdalenemystique.com/2007/05/14/what-is-your-experience-of-human-nature/#comment-571 I agree with you all that we come here with God within. I like to see the spiritual matters as a mirror of essential human life and would like to draw together both notions about original sin and God already within. I mean that both are true. I believe we are born with heaven within (Jesus said that children are closer to heaven). Then we also have all the obstacles of practical everyday life, the strife to feed and clothe, prosper. This creates the problems for families of all humanity of the ages, to this day. As children we are carried along, but not much more (sorry to be generalizing to make my point). This creates the psychological barriers in kids/teens/young adults/old adults (in us), that result in fear and in some cases eventually violence. I am sorry to say, that at times I have been totally angry and yelling at my kids, creating a sort of fear (of "mommy getting angry with me - mommy does not love me?"). This is so common among parents/in parenting. Original sin, that we inherit from our families, is in fact the psychological fears created from needs that have not been met. This creates a pattern in the line of families how to deal with things. This is my belief. For example the very common way of raising children by spanking them. (This is in fact forbidden by law in Sweden, since the 70s). That is a way of dealing with things that is inherited from the family line. (How many times have we heard this: "I was spanked, and I did not suffer from it - on the contrary, it was good for me.") Hope you see my point. Original sin for me is a way of dealing with things, a way to handle life: in a good or bad way, and this way is what we learn from our family line. Still, God is present within every one of us. That day, when the person says: "I was spanked and I do not want to do it to my kids, it is wrong.", that day the spell of sin is broken - by love and courage, by the spark of God within. Last, to really answer the question: I am convinced that the human race is born altruistic, good, loving, caring and with God/Heaven within. It is the experiences of fear that makes us the opposite. By letting Love/the seed of God expand within, fear and self-loathing will be gone. Bless you, Anneli from Anneli I agree with you all that we come here with God within. I like to see the spiritual matters as a mirror of essential human life and would like to draw together both notions about original sin and God already within.
I mean that both are true. I believe we are born with heaven within (Jesus said that children are closer to heaven). Then we also have all the obstacles of practical everyday life, the strife to feed and clothe, prosper. This creates the problems for families of all humanity of the ages, to this day. As children we are carried along, but not much more (sorry to be generalizing to make my point). This creates the psychological barriers in kids/teens/young adults/old adults (in us), that result in fear and in some cases eventually violence. I am sorry to say, that at times I have been totally angry and yelling at my kids, creating a sort of fear (of “mommy getting angry with me - mommy does not love me?”). This is so common among parents/in parenting.
Original sin, that we inherit from our families, is in fact the psychological fears created from needs that have not been met. This creates a pattern in the line of families how to deal with things. This is my belief. For example the very common way of raising children by spanking them. (This is in fact forbidden by law in Sweden, since the 70s). That is a way of dealing with things that is inherited from the family line. (How many times have we heard this: “I was spanked, and I did not suffer from it - on the contrary, it was good for me.”)
Hope you see my point. Original sin for me is a way of dealing with things, a way to handle life: in a good or bad way, and this way is what we learn from our family line. Still, God is present within every one of us. That day, when the person says: “I was spanked and I do not want to do it to my kids, it is wrong.”, that day the spell of sin is broken - by love and courage, by the spark of God within.
Last, to really answer the question: I am convinced that the human race is born altruistic, good, loving, caring and with God/Heaven within. It is the experiences of fear that makes us the opposite. By letting Love/the seed of God expand within, fear and self-loathing will be gone.
Bless you,
Anneli
from Anneli

]]> by: Hamza Darrell Grizzle http://magdalenemystique.com/2007/05/14/what-is-your-experience-of-human-nature/#comment-546 Tue, 15 May 2007 15:37:20 +0000 http://magdalenemystique.com/2007/05/14/what-is-your-experience-of-human-nature/#comment-546 The positive view I have of human nature is NOT something that was part of my fundamentalist upbringing! I've come to have a much more positive view of human nature through my study of Sufism and my study of the Gospels of Thomas and Mary Magdalene. When the Kingdom of God is viewed as already within us all (rather than "added" within us when we accept Jesus and "get saved"), it changes the way we view our selves as well as others. Great conversation! I love this blog! The positive view I have of human nature is NOT something that was part of my fundamentalist upbringing! I’ve come to have a much more positive view of human nature through my study of Sufism and my study of the Gospels of Thomas and Mary Magdalene. When the Kingdom of God is viewed as already within us all (rather than “added” within us when we accept Jesus and “get saved”), it changes the way we view our selves as well as others.

Great conversation! I love this blog!

]]> by: Betty http://magdalenemystique.com/2007/05/14/what-is-your-experience-of-human-nature/#comment-545 Tue, 15 May 2007 14:50:26 +0000 http://magdalenemystique.com/2007/05/14/what-is-your-experience-of-human-nature/#comment-545 April, thanks for your comment and am looking forward to Part 2. As you pointed out, there is much that we can learn from the Eastern Christian tradition. It is important for us in the West to open our ears and eyes to the thinking of early Christians in the East where not only the optimism of Greek philosophy played a part, but also (I think) a stream of Buddhism. Recognizing that we have the seed of the spirit within us may be the first step in opening up. That recognition is something of a paradigm shift in itself. Those of us who were nurtured in the Western Christian tradition have all kinds of internal fears asscoiated with original sin thinking - the kind of thinking where sin is thought to be inevitably inherited by all of us. (this is where the church seems to side in with Hobbes, Santayana, and Freud) I marvel that it was St. Augustine who lived centuries after Jesus who came up with the notion of inherited sin. Can you imagine Jesus thinking about original sin when he is talking to the woman at the well or to Matthew the tax-collector, or to Peter, James, and John? I certainly can't. But because of that inherited sin legacy in the West, it may feel risky to step out and applaud the Gospel of Mary for its more optimistic view of the goodness in us. The Gospel doesn't say that this goodness comes full-blown but, as you mention, we have a seed of the spirit for potential spiritual growth within us. As Mary Magdalene gives witness, if we struggle to strip away our darkness, attachments, ignorance and wrath, we experience spiritual growth. It is possible to know peace and rest. We play an active role in this. Just as a conversation starter, I will throw out another idea: it occurs to me that the old original sin thinking is at the bottom of Limbo thinking in the first place. April, thanks for your comment and am looking forward to Part 2.

As you pointed out, there is much that we can learn from the Eastern Christian tradition. It is important for us in the West to open our ears and eyes to the thinking of early Christians in the East where not only the optimism of Greek philosophy played a part, but also (I think) a stream of Buddhism. Recognizing that we have the seed of the spirit within us may be the first step in opening up. That recognition is something of a paradigm shift in itself.

Those of us who were nurtured in the Western Christian tradition have all kinds of internal fears asscoiated with original sin thinking - the kind of thinking where sin is thought to be inevitably inherited by all of us. (this is where the church seems to side in with Hobbes, Santayana, and Freud) I marvel that it was St. Augustine who lived centuries after Jesus who came up with the notion of inherited sin. Can you imagine Jesus thinking about original sin when he is talking to the woman at the well or to Matthew the tax-collector, or to Peter, James, and John? I certainly can’t.

But because of that inherited sin legacy in the West, it may feel risky to step out and applaud the Gospel of Mary for its more optimistic view of the goodness in us. The Gospel doesn’t say that this goodness comes full-blown but, as you mention, we have a seed of the spirit for potential spiritual growth within us. As Mary Magdalene gives witness, if we struggle to strip away our darkness, attachments, ignorance and wrath, we experience spiritual growth. It is possible to know peace and rest. We play an active role in this.

Just as a conversation starter, I will throw out another idea: it occurs to me that the old original sin thinking is at the bottom of Limbo thinking in the first place.

]]> by: April DeConick http://magdalenemystique.com/2007/05/14/what-is-your-experience-of-human-nature/#comment-541 Mon, 14 May 2007 23:24:01 +0000 http://magdalenemystique.com/2007/05/14/what-is-your-experience-of-human-nature/#comment-541 Sorry but I hit return and it submitted before I finished. So Part 2 In the Eastern Christian tradition, human nature is not so bad. Adam's sin did not leave us lost and hopeless and helpless. It left us stunted or diminished, but still with the innate ability to help ourselves. In fact, we have to help ourselves according to the Eastern tradition, to reach deep within our soul and work to transform it into the image of God with the help of the Holy Spirit. This is a progressive and gradual process, but doable. The Gospel of Mary is part of this conversation, and understands that each person has within a seed of the spirit. Given the right conditions, this seed will germinate, will grow into God's Image. Sorry but I hit return and it submitted before I finished. So Part 2

In the Eastern Christian tradition, human nature is not so bad. Adam’s sin did not leave us lost and hopeless and helpless. It left us stunted or diminished, but still with the innate ability to help ourselves. In fact, we have to help ourselves according to the Eastern tradition, to reach deep within our soul and work to transform it into the image of God with the help of the Holy Spirit. This is a progressive and gradual process, but doable.

The Gospel of Mary is part of this conversation, and understands that each person has within a seed of the spirit. Given the right conditions, this seed will germinate, will grow into God’s Image.

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