Comments on: Commemoration of the Feast Day of St. Mary Magdalene with April DeConick http://magdalenemystique.com/2007/07/17/commemoration-of-the-feast-day-of-st-mary-magdalene-with-april-deconick/ The Path Inward Mon, 06 Sep 2010 13:40:34 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.4 by: HillaryR http://magdalenemystique.com/2007/07/17/commemoration-of-the-feast-day-of-st-mary-magdalene-with-april-deconick/#comment-2348 Mon, 13 Aug 2007 12:52:12 +0000 http://magdalenemystique.com/2007/07/17/commemoration-of-the-feast-day-of-st-mary-magdalene-with-april-deconick/#comment-2348 I would really like to see a copy of Dr. De Conick's talk on MM. Is it available? Thanks! I would really like to see a copy of Dr. De Conick’s talk on MM.

Is it available? Thanks!

]]> by: Angel Eliza http://magdalenemystique.com/2007/07/17/commemoration-of-the-feast-day-of-st-mary-magdalene-with-april-deconick/#comment-2307 Sun, 12 Aug 2007 09:15:28 +0000 http://magdalenemystique.com/2007/07/17/commemoration-of-the-feast-day-of-st-mary-magdalene-with-april-deconick/#comment-2307 Hello Betty, Thomas and Mary were closer as friends and in outlook than most of the Apostles. Many ways of Worship are the same. For instance home worship, no money collection, and no fixed hierarchy. From my friend's stories I can tell that many of the same stories are told as in Church of Thomas. For example; The fisherman, The sower, The Wine skin, Vineyard, and Pruning. Most of these stories also resonate in some form in the Synoptic Mathew, Mark, and Luke. It is an Oral Tradition in line with Church of Thomas. One difference is that there is no Symbolic consumption of Jesus blood or flesh. They do not use a cross in their worship. They do use a bowl. Communion in Church of Mary is the breaking of bread and sharing drink. Church of Thomas also considers Communion to be the sharing of food with our people, mindful of the sacrifice it represents. Church of Thomas recognizes the cross, the fish and the sword all as symbols of Jesus. Both traditions believe in the Spiritual Resurrection of Jesus. We believe God took care of the body. We do not believe Jesus got up in the body and walked out of the Tomb. My friend did not say if there was a France connection. I think there may be. The branch of Church of Thomas that I can trace in my family leads back to Burgundy. I know that Thomas traveled a great deal. Syria, Egypt, and North Africa are all I know for sure. The branch of Church of Thomas I belong only recognizes the Gospel of Thomas as being pure. We do think it was written by the Apostle Thomas. We did not have it in written form until about 4 years ago. When we discussed the other Gospels credited to Thomas we did not find resonance. Knowing that different cultures interpret stories in different lights we do not discount them. We just do not use them in Worship. In addition there may have been too much one ups-manship going on regarding John, in the later writings for Jesus' messages to come through. We do not see Thomas's hand in these latter writings. We enjoy reading many old Testament verses. The poems David wrote are very inspiring. Stories of Faith and Redemption are popular. Daniel, Noah, David and Goliath, Joseph, Abraham and Issac. We are great fans of stories about Good verses Evil, even if it is Fiction or Hollywood doing the production. In the New Testament we read selections from the Synoptics. The writings of Paul and his followers, and John we read with a very careful eye. There are small insights in them that we find useful in inspiring our people. We see the Revelations book in a different light. We are told not to obsess about when the end is coming. We do see that it was not written by the same person as John. We do recognize some visions as holding images we recognize. However we do not use it as a teaching tool because most of the references to events have already come about. They were snap shots of invasions of Israel after Jesus, etc. Since we believe that other Religions are out of date, we do not follow any of their traditions. Nor do we show practice any customs other than what has been handed down to us. I know it is not a Spiritual Death Sentence to be a member of a different Religion. However it seems to be a massive step backwards to revert to adding these practices into Christianity. I think we have made good progress by having a single Deity. A pantheon of multiple gods fragments our focus on one god. One problem I have seen in my Ministry is that often a person will shopping cart their beliefs. A little bit from this Religion, a little bit from a dozen more. The problem is every Religion has rules and codes of Reciprocity. When you blend discordant traditions you become subject to the rules of all the traditions you have cherry picked to create your own. Before I became a Minister I did the minimal amount to be in "Compliance" with my faith. I did good, but not always for the right reasons. I dragged my feet for 10 years after I heard God calling me to Service. I knew what it would mean on the behaving myself front, which definitely did not appeal to me. When I finally Awakened to my calling things changed dramatically. Doors that I thought were locked flew open. Enemies became impotent in their efforts to injure me. It is still hard at times to "Be Good". I hear little whispers to do as I did in the past. At least now I recognize who is doing the whispering. It is no friend of mine. I try to be Good as a role model as well. I never believed in a double standard of behavior. The more people listen to you the more you must try to exemplify what you teach. God helps a great deal with encouragement on my hard days. I try to be the best I can be, and that is what I hope to inspire in my people. I'm glad you like the sentence about blessing the Whole World. We are all children of God. Saying you want your Enemy to be cursed by God is a bit counter productive. You can always pray they be blessed with a peaceful heart or discernment. Angel Hello Betty,
Thomas and Mary were closer as friends and in outlook than most of the Apostles. Many ways of Worship are the same. For instance home worship, no money collection, and no fixed hierarchy.
From my friend’s stories I can tell that many of the same stories are told as in Church of Thomas. For example; The fisherman, The sower, The Wine skin, Vineyard, and Pruning. Most of these stories also resonate in some form in the Synoptic Mathew, Mark, and Luke. It is an Oral Tradition in line with Church of Thomas.
One difference is that there is no Symbolic consumption of Jesus blood or flesh. They do not use a cross in their worship. They do use a bowl. Communion in Church of Mary is the breaking of bread and sharing drink.
Church of Thomas also considers Communion to be the sharing of food with our people, mindful of the sacrifice it represents. Church of Thomas recognizes the cross, the fish and the sword all as symbols of Jesus.
Both traditions believe in the Spiritual Resurrection of Jesus. We believe God took care of the body. We do not believe Jesus got up in the body and walked out of the Tomb.
My friend did not say if there was a France connection. I think there may be. The branch of Church of Thomas that I can trace in my family leads back to Burgundy.
I know that Thomas traveled a great deal. Syria, Egypt, and North Africa are all I know for sure. The branch of Church of Thomas I belong only recognizes the Gospel of Thomas as being pure. We do think it was written by the Apostle Thomas. We did not have it in written form until about 4 years ago. When we discussed the other Gospels credited to Thomas we did not find resonance. Knowing that different cultures interpret stories in different lights we do not discount them. We just do not use them in Worship.
In addition there may have been too much one ups-manship going on regarding John, in the later writings for Jesus’ messages to come through. We do not see Thomas’s hand in these latter writings.
We enjoy reading many old Testament verses. The poems David wrote are very inspiring. Stories of Faith and Redemption are popular. Daniel, Noah, David and Goliath, Joseph, Abraham and Issac. We are great fans of stories about Good verses Evil, even if it is Fiction or Hollywood doing the production.
In the New Testament we read selections from the Synoptics. The writings of Paul and his followers, and John we read with a very careful eye. There are small insights in them that we find useful in inspiring our people. We see the Revelations book in a different light.
We are told not to obsess about when the end is coming. We do see that it was not written by the same person as John. We do recognize some visions as holding images we recognize. However we do not use it as a teaching tool because most of the references to events have already come about. They were snap shots of invasions of Israel after Jesus, etc.
Since we believe that other Religions are out of date, we do not follow any of their traditions. Nor do we show practice any customs other than what has been handed down to us. I know it is not a Spiritual Death Sentence to be a member of a different Religion. However it seems to be a massive step backwards to revert to adding these practices into Christianity.
I think we have made good progress by having a single Deity. A pantheon of multiple gods fragments our focus on one god. One problem I have seen in my Ministry is that often a person will shopping cart their beliefs. A little bit from this Religion, a little bit from a dozen more. The problem is every Religion has rules and codes of Reciprocity. When you blend discordant traditions you become subject to the rules of all the traditions you have cherry picked to create your own.
Before I became a Minister I did the minimal amount to be in “Compliance” with my faith. I did good, but not always for the right reasons. I dragged my feet for 10 years after I heard God calling me to Service. I knew what it would mean on the behaving myself front, which definitely did not appeal to me.
When I finally Awakened to my calling things changed dramatically. Doors that I thought were locked flew open. Enemies became impotent in their efforts to injure me. It is still hard at times to “Be Good”. I hear little whispers to do as I did in the past. At least now I recognize who is doing the whispering. It is no friend of mine.
I try to be Good as a role model as well. I never believed in a double standard of behavior. The more people listen to you the more you must try to exemplify what you teach. God helps a great deal with encouragement on my hard days. I try to be the best I can be, and that is what I hope to inspire in my people.
I’m glad you like the sentence about blessing the Whole World. We are all children of God. Saying you want your Enemy to be cursed by God is a bit counter productive. You can always pray they be blessed with a peaceful heart or discernment.

Angel

]]> by: Betty http://magdalenemystique.com/2007/07/17/commemoration-of-the-feast-day-of-st-mary-magdalene-with-april-deconick/#comment-2284 Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:27:16 +0000 http://magdalenemystique.com/2007/07/17/commemoration-of-the-feast-day-of-st-mary-magdalene-with-april-deconick/#comment-2284 Dear Angel Eliza, Many thanks to you for your long response. I am eager to hear more about the Church of Thomas. I enjoyed your blog and website. Also, I hope you will tell us more about the Church of Mary - my explorations on the net did not come up with anything. Is this Church located in France and does this have to do with an apostolic line? What I know of the Church of Thomas is very little. I understand that there are two traditions about the missionary work of Thomas: there is a Syrian tradition that says Thomas journeyed to India (and the Acts of Thomas tend to give credibility to this tradition) and there is an Egyptian tradition that says Thomas got as far as Parthian Persia though not to India. I know that there are persons in India that say they are "Thomas Christians." Their tradition is oral and not documented because these Christians think it important to keep the tradition this way. I gather from your comments that this may be the oral tradition in which you participate. I noticed in your post entitled "Teachings of the Church of Thomas" that you meet in homes, tents, campgrounds, but not in fixed places, so as not to spend money maintaining a staff or a building or office for Clergy. I think that is a wonderful teaching. And like the Magdalene Community, you take turns leading the worship and that you love to sing and share stories. And like us, as well, your gatherings tend to be small. Is it correct that the Gospel of Thomas is your inspired text and that in your services you have a reading from that text? What other readings from the Bible to you have and what readings from other spiritualities and traditions? Can you tell us more about the stories you share and how your daily life is changed because you belong to the Church of Thomas? And, I love the idea of a new generation of Angels! I am totally with you in saying: God bless the whole world NO EXCEPTIONS Betty Dear Angel Eliza,

Many thanks to you for your long response. I am eager to hear more about the Church of Thomas. I enjoyed your blog and website. Also, I hope you will tell us more about the Church of Mary - my explorations on the net did not come up with anything. Is this Church located in France and does this have to do with an apostolic line?

What I know of the Church of Thomas is very little. I understand that there are two traditions about the missionary work of Thomas: there is a Syrian tradition that says Thomas journeyed to India (and the Acts of Thomas tend to give credibility to this tradition) and there is an Egyptian tradition that says Thomas got as far as Parthian Persia though not to India. I know that there are persons in India that say they are “Thomas Christians.” Their tradition is oral and not documented because these Christians think it important to keep the tradition this way. I gather from your comments that this may be the oral tradition in which you participate.

I noticed in your post entitled “Teachings of the Church of Thomas” that you meet in homes, tents, campgrounds, but not in fixed places, so as not to spend money maintaining a staff or a building or office for Clergy. I think that is a wonderful teaching. And like the Magdalene Community, you take turns leading the worship and that you love to sing and share stories. And like us, as well, your gatherings tend to be small.

Is it correct that the Gospel of Thomas is your inspired text and that in your services you have a reading from that text? What other readings from the Bible to you have and what readings from other spiritualities and traditions? Can you tell us more about the stories you share and how your daily life is changed because you belong to the Church of Thomas?

And, I love the idea of a new generation of Angels!
I am totally with you in saying: God bless the whole world NO EXCEPTIONS

Betty

]]> by: Angel Eliza http://magdalenemystique.com/2007/07/17/commemoration-of-the-feast-day-of-st-mary-magdalene-with-april-deconick/#comment-2164 Tue, 07 Aug 2007 02:56:34 +0000 http://magdalenemystique.com/2007/07/17/commemoration-of-the-feast-day-of-st-mary-magdalene-with-april-deconick/#comment-2164 Hello, My name is Angel Eliza. I am a Minster in the Church of Thomas. I have friends who are of the Church of Mary. They are originally from Lithuania. Both the Gospel of Thomas and Gospel of Mary have been lumped into the Gnostic Tradition. I believe it is similar to the old joke about 9 blindfolded men describing an Elephant. They will not come close to the whole picture. In the need to cubbyhole our World anything that is not understood is called Cryptic and filled with secret messages. All the Gospels that were stored together have been 'analyzed' by current Christian Scholars have been lumped into the Gnostic tradition. It may be discovered that none of the Gospel will turn out to be Gnostic. All it will take is people of these traditions to come forward for discussion. All I can say is neither Thomas or Mary taught in that tradition. I'm glad that some folks are starting to recognize the Politics that sidelined the Apostle Mary. The Church of Thomas has always seen her as a role model and equal. The problem is that the banner of support is being taken up by the very faction that called us Heretics in the first place. We did not need the written word of the "Discovered" fragments of Gospel of Mary and Gospel of Thomas to know our traditions. It was a death sentence to have them written down. The other option was to change basic beliefs to conform. An example of this is the Church in Syria called Church of Thomas. The Jesuits "re-educated" them. We remained an oral Tradition as a result. For me it was great to see something in writing, only because there were a few pieces that were lost over time. I have updated the Gospel of Thomas to modern Language. That update is called the Reconciler Gospel of Thomas. It is free to anyone who would like to study it on the Church of Thomas website: http://angeleliza41.tripod.com I can not speak for the Church of Mary, because frankly they are still afraid to expose themselves to persecution. If they have someone like me step forward I will gladly let you know. As for Church of Thomas we are ready to talk. It would be nice to have the people adopting our Apostles words ask us about the original meanings of verses. I can only explain the verses of the Gospel of Thomas, but I am willing to share what I know. God Bless the Whole World No Exceptions. Angel Eliza Hello,
My name is Angel Eliza. I am a Minster in the Church of Thomas. I have friends who are of the Church of Mary. They are originally from Lithuania. Both the Gospel of Thomas and Gospel of Mary have been lumped into the Gnostic Tradition. I believe it is similar to the old joke about 9 blindfolded men describing an Elephant. They will not come close to the whole picture.
In the need to cubbyhole our World anything that is not understood is called Cryptic and filled with secret messages. All the Gospels that were stored together have been ‘analyzed’ by current Christian Scholars have been lumped into the Gnostic tradition. It may be discovered that none of the Gospel will turn out to be Gnostic. All it will take is people of these traditions to come forward for discussion. All I can say is neither Thomas or Mary taught in that tradition.
I’m glad that some folks are starting to recognize the Politics that sidelined the Apostle Mary. The Church of Thomas has always seen her as a role model and equal. The problem is that the banner of support is being taken up by the very faction that called us Heretics in the first place.
We did not need the written word of the “Discovered” fragments of Gospel of Mary and Gospel of Thomas to know our traditions. It was a death sentence to have them written down. The other option was to change basic beliefs to conform. An example of this is the Church in Syria called Church of Thomas. The Jesuits “re-educated” them.
We remained an oral Tradition as a result. For me it was great to see something in writing, only because there were a few pieces that were lost over time. I have updated the Gospel of Thomas to modern Language. That update is called the Reconciler Gospel of Thomas. It is free to anyone who would like to study it on the Church of Thomas website:
http://angeleliza41.tripod.com

I can not speak for the Church of Mary, because frankly they are still afraid to expose themselves to persecution. If they have someone like me step forward I will gladly let you know.
As for Church of Thomas we are ready to talk. It would be nice to have the people adopting our Apostles words ask us about the original meanings of verses. I can only explain the verses of the Gospel of Thomas, but I am willing to share what I know.

God Bless the Whole World No Exceptions.
Angel Eliza

]]> by: Bridgitt http://magdalenemystique.com/2007/07/17/commemoration-of-the-feast-day-of-st-mary-magdalene-with-april-deconick/#comment-1802 Tue, 24 Jul 2007 17:09:28 +0000 http://magdalenemystique.com/2007/07/17/commemoration-of-the-feast-day-of-st-mary-magdalene-with-april-deconick/#comment-1802 I attended the feastday service and lecture on Sunday, July 22, and although it was very beautiful and the music was especially lovely, I'm afraid I found some of the language a bit too God-the-Father/Patriarchal for my current understanding of and relationship to the divine. I did love the use of "real" bread for the communion. I also enjoyed, with some reservation, Dr. DeConick's lecture. I did learn some new things, but speaking from purely my own limited understanding and not as an academic, I don't agree that the Gospel of Mary is a "midrash." For me, it as a true gospel, told from the point of view of an early christian who revered Mary Magdalene's leadership and apostleship, but whose voice was labeled as heretical and therefore silenced in favor of what became canon. I also believe that Karen King and Jean-Yves Leloup (and probably Marvin Meyer) would not classify the Gospel of Mary as midrash. At least, that's not what I understand from my reading and study of King's, Leloup's and Meyer's translations and expositions. I did find interesting Dr. DeConick's emphasis that the Gospel of Mary is "Valentinian" in nature and gnostic. I will explore further what "Valentinian" is and what it means. Bridgitt I attended the feastday service and lecture on Sunday, July 22, and although it was very beautiful and the music was especially lovely, I’m afraid I found some of the language a bit too God-the-Father/Patriarchal for my current understanding of and relationship to the divine. I did love the use of “real” bread for the communion.

I also enjoyed, with some reservation, Dr. DeConick’s lecture. I did learn some new things, but speaking from purely my own limited understanding and not as an academic, I don’t agree that the Gospel of Mary is a “midrash.” For me, it as a true gospel, told from the point of view of an early christian who revered Mary Magdalene’s leadership and apostleship, but whose voice was labeled as heretical and therefore silenced in favor of what became canon. I also believe that Karen King and Jean-Yves Leloup (and probably Marvin Meyer) would not classify the Gospel of Mary as midrash. At least, that’s not what I understand from my reading and study of King’s, Leloup’s and Meyer’s translations and expositions. I did find interesting Dr. DeConick’s emphasis that the Gospel of Mary is “Valentinian” in nature and gnostic. I will explore further what “Valentinian” is and what it means.

Bridgitt

]]> by: Betty http://magdalenemystique.com/2007/07/17/commemoration-of-the-feast-day-of-st-mary-magdalene-with-april-deconick/#comment-1713 Wed, 18 Jul 2007 16:41:47 +0000 http://magdalenemystique.com/2007/07/17/commemoration-of-the-feast-day-of-st-mary-magdalene-with-april-deconick/#comment-1713 thanks, Annie, for your interest. Glad to have you on board. We will have some pictures and remembrances from our Feast Day so stay tuned. Betty Adam thanks, Annie, for your interest. Glad to have you on board. We will have some pictures and remembrances from our Feast Day so stay tuned. Betty Adam

]]> by: annie http://magdalenemystique.com/2007/07/17/commemoration-of-the-feast-day-of-st-mary-magdalene-with-april-deconick/#comment-1710 Wed, 18 Jul 2007 15:09:11 +0000 http://magdalenemystique.com/2007/07/17/commemoration-of-the-feast-day-of-st-mary-magdalene-with-april-deconick/#comment-1710 this is my lucky day! i have found some great blogs this a.m. while blog hopping. your blog looks full of interesting writing that i am looking forward to reading. also will need to check out the book and cd! this is my lucky day! i have found some great blogs this a.m. while blog hopping. your blog looks full of interesting writing that i am looking forward to reading. also will need to check out the book and cd!

]]> by: Wanda http://magdalenemystique.com/2007/07/17/commemoration-of-the-feast-day-of-st-mary-magdalene-with-april-deconick/#comment-1692 Wed, 18 Jul 2007 00:01:43 +0000 http://magdalenemystique.com/2007/07/17/commemoration-of-the-feast-day-of-st-mary-magdalene-with-april-deconick/#comment-1692 Ever since Mary Magdalene became a hot topic, I have wondered if 'something new' would spark my interest enough to attend the various events you have in her honor. I mean no disrespect when I state that. I am an African-American woman who is pretty strong-willed, and I know what I want. Well, most of the time I do. The idea of Mary Magdalene being a disciple and church leader in Jesus' time, excited me when it was first... uh, how should I say... 'revealed'. However, the novelty has worn off for me. I have attended a couple of Mary Magdalene-centered events at the Cathedral. While they have been informative, I have been left wanting. I have stopped attending. Sunday's lecture will discuss whether Mary Magdalene was a prostitute or a loyal disciple. I want her to have been both. Because that would put 'meat on her bones' IMO. It's not enough for her to have been a woman leader in predominately male-run world. I still believe we live in a Madonna/whore society and it needs to be addressed. I have suffered at the hands of those who have no problem enforcing this view of women. It's like women can only be 'good girls' or 'bad girls'. And what makes them bad girls is all about sex. Women who like sex are invariably considered to be carnal but not spiritual. Can a Christian woman really show her sexuality and sex appeal to the fullest? Oh heck no. At least not from where I sit. Well, yes she can, but bet your bottom dollar too many will be suspicious of where she is really coming from. And if she is as Christian as she says she is. Please know I am not talking about female sexuality in a broad term. That's tame and safe. Rather, I am speaking of red-hot flaming sex appeal that does not shrink back from those who are threatened by it. I find that those who have the biggest problem with the Madonna/whore concept are other women. Men have their own issues. But women IMO have the most power here. It has been my experience that many women will actively sabotage another woman's expression of her sexuality (especially if she is single) if it threatens her enough. Again, I speak from experience. It's so tiresome. Hopefully my opinion is not too off-putting. It is my belief that this stuff needs to be addressed asap by women who really are about choices and freedoms for all women. Maybe I don't want to go so far as to say I condone prostitution (heaven forbid!) but if Mary Magdalene was an earthy and sensual woman while being a disciple and church leader, she has the utmost potential for being my hero. Just my 2 cents. W. Ever since Mary Magdalene became a hot topic, I have wondered if ’something new’ would spark my interest enough to attend the various events you have in her honor.

I mean no disrespect when I state that. I am an African-American woman who is pretty strong-willed, and I know what I want. Well, most of the time I do. The idea of Mary Magdalene being a disciple and church leader in Jesus’ time, excited me when it was first… uh, how should I say… ‘revealed’. However, the novelty has worn off for me. I have attended a couple of Mary Magdalene-centered events at the Cathedral. While they have been informative, I have been left wanting. I have stopped attending.

Sunday’s lecture will discuss whether Mary Magdalene was a prostitute or a loyal disciple. I want her to have been both. Because that would put ‘meat on her bones’ IMO. It’s not enough for her to have been a woman leader in predominately male-run world.

I still believe we live in a Madonna/whore society and it needs to be addressed. I have suffered at the hands of those who have no problem enforcing this view of women. It’s like women can only be ‘good girls’ or ‘bad girls’. And what makes them bad girls is all about sex. Women who like sex are invariably considered to be carnal but not spiritual. Can a Christian woman really show her sexuality and sex appeal to the fullest? Oh heck no. At least not from where I sit. Well, yes she can, but bet your bottom dollar too many will be suspicious of where she is really coming from. And if she is as Christian as she says she is.

Please know I am not talking about female sexuality in a broad term. That’s tame and safe. Rather, I am speaking of red-hot flaming sex appeal that does not shrink back from those who are threatened by it.

I find that those who have the biggest problem with the Madonna/whore concept are other women. Men have their own issues. But women IMO have the most power here. It has been my experience that many women will actively sabotage another woman’s expression of her sexuality (especially if she is single) if it threatens her enough. Again, I speak from experience. It’s so tiresome.

Hopefully my opinion is not too off-putting. It is my belief that this stuff needs to be addressed asap by women who really are about choices and freedoms for all women. Maybe I don’t want to go so far as to say I condone prostitution (heaven forbid!) but if Mary Magdalene was an earthy and sensual woman while being a disciple and church leader, she has the utmost potential for being my hero.

Just my 2 cents.

W.

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